Transcript for “Careers, Culture, and Becoming CEO” with Erika Ayers Badan
What does it take to get to the C-suite? In the case of Erika Ayers Badan, the road to the CEO’s chair was filled with risk and had plenty of bumps along the way. Earlier in 2024, Erika was appointed CEO of Food52. She’s the former CEO of Barstool Sports, where she saw Barstool’s rocket ship ascent in the competitive sports media environment. She is also the author of the book “Nobody Cares About Your Career.” In this interview with Erika, she discusses her willingness to take risks, how she thinks about career development, the roles of mentors in assisting her success, her approach to getting over the need to be perfect, and she discusses the CEO’s role in cultivating the company culture that will help an organization succeed.
Erika Ayers Badan is the CEO of Food52 and the former CEO of Barstool Sports. During her tenure at Barstool from 2016 to 2024, Erika transformed the organization from a regional blog to a national powerhouse operation leading to a 5,000% increase in overall revenue, making it one of the most innovative and successful internet media brands. Before joining Barstool, Erika held several leadership positions in media and technology at Microsoft, AOL, Demand Media, and Yahoo. She has been extensively recognized for her innovation in the industry, including being named one of Forbes’ Most Powerful Women in Sports amongst other achievements. Erika currently serves on the boards of the Premier Lacrosse League, Axon Enterprise (AXON), and Malaria No More. She is the author of the book “Nobody Cares About Your Career: Why Failure is Good, The Great Ones Play Hurt and Other Hard Truths.”
Don MacPherson: Hello, this is Don MacPherson, your host of 12 Geniuses. What does it take to get to the C-suite?
In the case of Erika Ayers Badan, the road to the CEO’s chair was filled with risk and had plenty of bumps along the way. Earlier this year, Erika was appointed CEO of Food52, and she’s the former CEO of Barstool Sports, where she saw Barstool’s rocket ship Ascent in the competitive sports media environment. She is also the author of the book — Nobody Cares About Your Career. In my conversation with Erika, we discuss her willingness to take risks, how she thinks about career development, the roles of mentors in assisting her success, her approach to getting over the need to be perfect, and we discussed the CEO’s role in cultivating the company culture that will help an organization succeed.
This episode of 12 Geniuses is brought to you by TSC, formerly known as the Starr Conspiracy. TSC is a full-stack marketing agency, redefining marketing for tech companies. For more information, head over to tsc.chat. Erika, welcome to 12 Geniuses.
Erika Ayers Badan: Thank you.
Don: Let’s start out with your background. Tell us who you are and what you’ve been doing with your career.
Erika: Oh, I mean, I’ve had a messy career. I am the CEO of a company called Food52. And prior to this, I was the CEO of a company called Barstool Sports, where I was at for about a decade. I started my career as a receptionist at Fidelity Investments in Boston in the late ’90s, and then really wandered my way through a bunch of ad agencies through the internet, through Microsoft, Yahoo. I helped take a company called Demand Media public. I worked at a bunch of startups, which went nowhere. That one went somewhere. I was the CMO of AOL. And I’ve really worked at, I would say, a combination of very big companies, very small companies. I’ve had big roles, small roles, successful roles, failing roles, but I’ve really loved to work and I’ve loved to learn in that entire process.
Don: You wrote a book.
Erika: Yes, I did.
Don: You wrote a book called Nobody Cares About Your Career. Why did you write that book?
Erika: I wrote it for a couple reasons. One is when I went and looked at business books — I went to the bookstore, I looked at all the, the business section — I really felt that there were two things. One was there were people who were perfect at the end and saying, “I’m perfect. I was so great. I was a genius how I did this.” But it felt a little bit unattainable. It felt unattainable. And then on the other end, I felt that you were supposed to pick up a habit or have discipline or do a small miraculous thing that was going to change your career for you if you just had the discipline to do this one thing. And my career is really quite different in that I’m definitely not perfect, nor am I at the end, and I don’t have the discipline for the habit that is going to fix me.
And I wanted to write it as a conversation of someone who is a sitting CEO in the middle of her career who’s worked in a very wild, crazy workplace, who has had a lot of different jobs. And it’s really my take, it’s a conversation, it’s written very conversationally, it’s my take on, “Hey, what kind of head space do you need to be in to be great at work? How do you navigate work?” Work is tough to navigate. And then how do you know when you should stick around? Or how do you know when you should leave and why?
Don: You talked about perfection. And in your book, you write, “You are not perfect. Neither is your work, but you can both be great.” And I love that. I think that’s really, really important. So, how and when did you get over the desire to be perfect at work?
Erika: Oh, I mean, I’m still struggling with it. I think a desire to be great and to constantly be better, I think it’s like the dog that never gets the treat. I think I’ll always be on that treadmill or on that gauntlet. And I think, for me, it’s very motivating to want to be better at everything, not just work. And some days I’m better at it and some things I’m better at it. But I think people spend a lot of time blaming their job for not giving them more or being the thing they wanted it to be or not… They blame their job for their situation. And the reality is, is that every company has issues. Literally every company. Pick the most successful company on the planet, they have issues.
Don: That’s kind of why it’s called work.
Erika: Exactly like it’s called work for a reason. And I write a lot about this, exactly to your point, which is work happens on like a very mundane Monday or like a Wednesday when you’re in a bad mood. That’s when the work really happens. And I really do believe that if you can get over this bias and this judgment that either you’re perfect and you’re not, or your job is supposed to be perfect and it’s not, but you both have things to offer and you both have things that are wrong with you, and you both have potential, meet up and marry those two things up to make something great.
Don: I’m curious to know what advice you have for young people as they think about their career development.
Erika: My biggest piece of advice for young people is to not get so rigid in not knowing what it’s going to look like. I think young people, in my experience right now, are really fixated on like, “But what if? What if I take the wrong job? Or what if I don’t have a job that’s good enough? Or, well, what if I take this and then I don’t take that?” Stop worrying about the existential so much. Just take a job. Your first job, it really doesn’t matter. Maybe you’re lucky in that your first job is amazing and it’s everything you ever wanted and wah, like it’s insanely great. More likely your first job, you are not going to be great at it because it’s your first job. and it’s not going to be great. And it’s not 20 years, 30 years, 10 years ahead, you’re not going to be like, “Well, I love that job.” But really stop worrying about the existentialness of that first job and just take a job and learn as much as you can.
Don: And don’t you think that there are many young people who feel like there’s this roadmap and I have to stay on this, and if I deviate from it, then I’m never going to recover?
Erika: Yes. I mean, that’s why I called this book Nobody Cares about Your Career, which is that you have to stop… You don’t have to do anything. Actually, let me take that back. But there’s this notion that you should be doing something a certain way, or you should be on a certain track, or you should be making this much money or have this type of title. And it’s really a false narrative, and it’s really damaging because it puts you losing on a yardstick that really is irrelevant and doesn’t matter. People do not care about your career. Like your mother might care a little bit, but really she doesn’t even care. I think what’s hard about this notion that you should be something is… I think all that serves to do is to make that little voice inside of you about what you really want to do or who you really want to become. It makes that voice feel small.
I have a friend who’s a college senior at Princeton, and I was like, “Ooh, what are you going to do? What are you going to do after you graduate from Princeton?” And he is like, “Well, I think I have to go into finance.” And I was like, why? And he is like, “That’s what you’re supposed to do when you go to Princeton.” And I’m like, “Well, is that what you want to do?” So, I think just doing things that interest you, that excite you, that make you feel fulfilled, it’s really important. And getting yourself out of this you-should-be thing is a good way to get there.
Don: That takes risk. And I wanted to ask you about what you’ve learned about risk and failure because you have taken risks.
Erika: Yes.
Don: At least from the outside, I don’t know you personally, but I have seen that you didn’t choose the path that was of least resistance.
Erika: Definitely. I really listen to that voice inside me, and I’ve made a bunch of moves in my career that I would say conventional wisdom would say, you shouldn’t do that, or that wasn’t a good move. And what I knew inside was that it was the right move for me. And that’s also why I call the book Nobody Cares is that you are the person who you are waiting for. You are the person who is going to propel you into a new place. And taking risk is a really, really important part of that because you may lose, and you’ll probably lose as much as you win, but the effort and the exertion to go through that is where you learn the most. When I worked at Fidelity Investments, I worked in the legal department and I was making $50,000 a year. I was probably 22.
And that was a big gig. And like that was a lot of money. I still think $50,000 is a lot of money. And I left it to go make $17,000 and work in the advertising department. And everyone was like, “You are an idiot.” Were there things I should have done differently in that transition? Like figure out how to make $50,000 and then live on $17,000? 1000%. But what it taught me was that a risk could open up a whole new world. And I really do believe that about taking risk. I tend to believe that everyone is an optimist, or most everyone is an optimist. So, even if you did the stupidest risk ever, and it turned out to be a mistake, you’re going to say, “Ooh, but if I hadn’t done this, this really good thing wouldn’t have happened." So this fear around risk taking, I think it’s time not well spent.
Don: You know what, as we are talking here, I’m realizing that it was 30 years ago this month that I sold all my possessions and moved one way to Germany. And I will say that that year that I spent in Germany set the foundation for the past 30 years of my life and my career being an entrepreneur. This is my fifth company. And without taking that risk, who knows what life would’ve turned-
Erika: Hey, you wouldn’t probably be the same person.
Don: No, absolutely not.
Erika: That’s what’s great about taking risk is that it makes you learn a lot about yourself in a really short amount of time because you’ve put yourself in an unsafe position. I have this line, I talk about it a lot, I talk about it in the book, which is like — get uncomfortable being uncomfortable. How do you become uncomfortable in an uncomfortable situation? That’s learning how to take risks.
Don: By the way, I was working for a Fortune 500 when I moved to Germany, and my parents were like, “Are you out of your mind?” I’m wondering what people said to you when you left this $50,000-a-year job to make $17,000.
Erika: Yeah, people, I mean, the HR lady was like, what? No one in the history of Fidelity had had done that. Probably no one has done that since. There was a lot of, like, “Are you sure?” At the end of the day, I actually didn’t really care so much what everyone else said because I was convinced and convicted that it was right for me. And that was true when I took the Barstool Sports job, which is most people said that was career suicide. And the reality was it was the exact opposite. I think was the single greatest thing that ever happened to my career. But I would never have known if I hadn’t tried.
And the fact that people thought it was a mistake actually made me double down on wanting to make sure it was successful. Also, taking a risk and having that be an unpopular choice can be a great motivator.
Don: What was the biggest adjustment you had to make when you went and became a CEO?
Erika: Being a CEO, you know, I’m in my second CEO gig now. First time CEOs, it’s stressful because you’re just not confident. You haven’t seen the problems before from that seat. And I learned a lot about being confident about the decisions I was making and the actions we were taking and also how to navigate the ones that worked as well as the decisions that didn’t. I think a CEO gig is pretty lonely. You’re kind of alone at the top in a way. And so that was also a big adjustment of you’re not part of a department. You’re not one of many; you’re one of one. That was a big adjustment. I think this idea of co-CEOs is kind of popular and present now, or it was. I actually don’t agree with that either. I feel actually having to have that accountability and to navigate it was important for me. And then I think the other piece is just, how are you motivating and driving a company to achieve something? And then how are you communicating that achievement or lack thereof? It takes some reps.
Don: I wonder how you have gotten over the loneliness aspect of being CEO because that’s something I’ve noticed as well. I serve on a, a number of boards, only one now, but I’ve noticed that CEOs are kind of on an island. They often reach out to the board, but that’s not our role is to be your colleague and to be your friend. So, how have you gotten over that?
Erika: Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s a funny position because while your board is your advisor group, and they are there to help you, they’re also your boss. That also can be a funny dynamic. And boards are funny places. I sit on a bunch of boards, and it’s a funny dynamic. It’s a lot of money people, it’s not necessarily subject matter experts in the area you’re working in. For me, I was really fortunate at Barstool, which is Dave Portnoy, the founder was very engaged. We worked hand in hand together. So I had a partner in that regard, and I was really grateful for that. I have the same thing at Food52. The founder is still present, so there’s someone to bounce.
I think having a great CFO who you can be a sounding board for you, it’s a great ally and it’s a great partner. They may not appreciate or be interested in all the different facets of the business, but I think they’re generally the closest person to the CEO, and it’s a good person to be close to.
Don: Yeah, I think so too. The old GE model was get the CEO, the CFO, and the head of HR in a room, and we can solve just about any problem.
Erika: A hundred percent, I agree with that. Yep, I think that’s right. I agree with that.
Don: Mentors have been critically important to my career development. And I’m curious to know if you’ve had mentors and what role they’ve played in your development.
Erika: Yeah, I’ve had a bunch of mentors. I was really fortunate to work for some really incredible people, one of whom is a woman named Joanne Bradford, who’s based in San Francisco, who I worked for 12 years. So, I had a really great longstanding mentor. She’s still my mentor to this day. I tend to think I felt really lucky in that there were people in my career who were senior to me, who were generous with their time and energy and knowledge, and patient with my learning curve. When I look for mentors or people ask about mentors, I think what you’re looking for is someone who has generosity of spirit where they are care enough to share, and they’re patient enough to let you figure it out. So I really value those two qualities.
I also think you can be mentored by people who don’t even know your name. And that was also one of my big tactics was to just watch everyone and observe as much as I could and to write down as much as I could possibly remember or take away. Good people, bad people, in between people, like, what can I learn from this person? What can I learn from this situation that I could take into my own experience and make myself better?
Don: I would say that one of the roles that mentors have played in my life is just having more confidence in me than me.
Erika: Yeah, definitely.
Don: And saying, “You can do this, you know?”
Erika: Yeah. You just go for it. Yeah.
Don: [laughs] Really? Okay. And I agree with you, there are mentors I have who I’ve never met, who have just an online presence. You take little bits and pieces of people and you can cobble together what you want to have values alignment and things of that nature.
Erika: Yeah, absolutely.
Don: How do you think of mentorship as CEO? Are there ways in which you’re putting people in place to get mentors?
Erika: Yeah. We talk about it at work now as thought partners. It’s really important to have a thought partner who you can trust and bounce stuff off. And it’s also really important. I think very often the greatest ideas come from the youngest people in the company and the most junior folks. So, I’m very interested in making sure that any company I’m at that the people newest to the company and most junior within the company have a big voice. That they have an avenue and an alley to make an outsized contribution. I think mentorship in those areas, and mentorship is really important. And then I also really think that mentorship… One great thing about mentorship is sometimes just giving people hands-on experience, just giving them the chance to do. And I try to create environments where there’s a lot of opportunities to do.
Don: And even just be in the room. I get invited to this meeting.
Erika: Definitely. Yeah, just be in the room. A hundred percent be in the mix. Absolutely.
Don: Of all the unique elements in your book, and there are a number, the one that really stood out to me was the part on happiness. You don’t see a lot of business books addressing happiness, and I’m wondering why it was important to include that.
Erika: It’s funny, as much as I think this is a business book, there’s some part of me that actually thinks this is a book about fulfillment and just using the environment you’re in to learn the most you can and to strive for the highest level of fulfillment. I think happiness is really important. And I also think this is why this is a very different “business book,” because how happy and fulfilled you are at work is going to have a really dramatic impact on how good you are at work. And even if you are the best, you’re the best athlete on the field, you’re the best employee in the room, if you are miserable, it doesn’t matter, because you know what? You’re going to make everybody else miserable. There’s no point, like, why do it if it doesn’t make you happy, is the way I think about it.
But I wish more people talked about this at work. I tend to in Barstool, and really even before becoming a CEO, and certainly where I am now, I often say like, “Hey, this is not a job for everyone. If this does not make you happy, if you don’t feel like you’re learning something, if this doesn’t do it for you, there’s no shame in that, don’t do this.” And I think that’s also a little bit freeing, and I wish people were more honest about this, which is I think a lot of times workplaces get caught in like, oh, more snacks will make you happy, or remote hybrid work will make you more happy. No. Are you fulfilled? Are you working on something? Are you challenging yourself? Are you able to make the type of contribution you’re capable of? I think that’s what can make people happy.
Don: In terms of fulfillment, I love the way you’re talking about fulfillment because I think the leadership role that we should have, or our moral imperative as leaders is to fulfill people at work so they can be fulfilled and the best version of themselves outside of work.
Erika: Exactly. Yeah.
Don: You don’t hear a lot of CEOs talking about that. We just want the most out of our people so we can increase shareholder value. And I just think there’s more to it than that.
Erika: Definitely. I totally agree with that.
Don: Well, I want to ask you about your authentic self because I did research, I researched you, or watched podcasts — you seem to be your authentic self. And I just love that. And I’m wondering, is that natural for you? Did you have to get comfortable being your natural self? Because you’re, I’ll just say this, you’re fairly outspoken, maybe use a little salty language every now and again.
Erika: Yeah, I love the F-word. I think I am my authentic self. I’ve always been my authentic self. So that is not new. Getting comfortable, being more public with that voice and this person, that is something you have to learn. That was not my natural inclination. I think I’m more public than I want to be, but I also feel like there’s not very many women in business who are working their way through things, talking about it as they’re doing it. And I think it’s important to show someone in this process. There’s a chapter in the book called For the Girls, which is… it’s not just for women, but it’s directed at women. The women who came before me and were in executive positions had to be very perfect. And the women who came before them, there were hardly any, and they had to be supremely perfect.
And the luxury and the great gift that I’ve gotten is I don’t have to be so perfect. So, I am intentionally not perfect and outspoken and my authentic self, because I think if you can be your authentic self at work, chances are you’ll be happier at work.
Don: I want to shift gears and talk about culture for a few minutes. Maybe you can describe the culture at Barstool Sports. I don’t know what it was like. I have a sense of what it might’ve been like, and then we’ll talk about culture at Food52 as well.
Erika: Okay. Wildly different cultures.
Don: That’s why I want to talk about this because I want to learn from this. This sounds really fascinating to me in how you navigated that.
Erika: The Barstool culture, one is, I think, there’s a lot made of what the Barstool culture was like from people who never set foot inside of the Barstool culture. The Barstool culture, as I saw it, and really as I experienced it, was incredibly hardworking, insanely mission-driven. We were so fortunate in that the people, who got jobs at Barstool Sports, worked. Worked their tails off — nights, weekends, 22 days in a row. The work ethic and engine in that company is extraordinary. Rowdy, it was mostly male. One thing that’s funny about working in a comedy brand and in an entertainment brand and in a brand where the cameras are on all the time is that everything gets punched up. So, there was a lot of yelling, there was a lot of comedy.
There were people making stuff all the time. It was very messy. And there were also a lot of missteps. I think what was interesting about the culture, just to put a pin on it, is that every day, everyone who made content at Barstool Sports wakes up with a blank page, and they’ve got to find something today that’s going to make you laugh or get your attention or get you to click on something. And that’s a lot of pressure. And it requires a lot of antics and a lot of experimentation to be able to do that. And it’s a volume shooting game. So, we were a high volume company by design. I think counter to that, Food52 comes out of like an editorial era and recipe development and food, which is all about perfection.
Don’t release the recipe until you’ve tested it 40 times and it’s absolutely perfect. So, really different cultural orientation. The second is it’s a female consumer. It’s a far older consumer. It’s a female-founded company. It’s a retail company. Culture-wise, I think I will meld the two where the Food52 culture will move faster, will be a little bit more chaotic, will be very hardworking, will be much more experimental. But I also really enjoy a brand design for women, a brand designed to build products and design products of quality to be in people’s homes. And that isn’t something you experiment with at volume.
Don: When you set foot in Barstool Sports, were you accepted right away or?
Erika: Yes.
Don: You were? Okay. So, how did you change the culture? Because if I remember correctly, you had some nice revenue, maybe $12 million when you stepped in, and you grew that significantly. So, the culture has to change. Just that’s the nature of things. What was your role in navigating or directing the culture?
Erika: It’s funny, I think this is truly a CEO’s job, which is that you’re constantly evaluating where you are versus the scale of the business you have today and the scale of the business you want tomorrow. The hardest part, or not the hardest part, but one difficult part about Barstool Sports was that we went from making, I don’t know, $5 million in revenue in 2016 to $300 million of revenue in 2023. So, it was a crazy run. The people who could make it from 5 million to 20 million to 50 million to 100 million to 150, that number was really small.
Don: The unicorns.
Erika: The unicorns. And the reality is that when your company goes from 5 million, let’s say to 50, which we went in a year, it’s a totally different management team. It’s a totally different set of problems. It’s a totally different set of business needs, communication changes. That was the vast majority of my time there, which was understanding how to navigate what the company needed, how the company needed to be structured, and what systems and pathways we needed at all of these various stages, and making sure that I didn’t get caught behind where we were and I wasn’t too unready for where we were going.
Don: Yeah, there’s something special, I’m sure, that existed when you came in and you don’t want to crush that, right?
Erika: Definitely. Yeah. That’s like the golden egg. That had to be carried and I really tried to protect the egg from the business.
Don: And what about at Food52? Because you’re in your first year, right? What was the culture like when you stepped in the door, and what is it like now?
Erika: I think really different.
Don: Really? Okay.
Erika: I would describe the company as injured when I got there. I think the company was really injured. They had been through a lot of layoffs, they’d been through a lot of management change. They’d been through a lot of changing direction and what I would call like a little bit of the chasing rainbow. I think one thing that happens in startups is your board and your investors can put a lot of pressure on the CEO to go find the thing that’s going to solve all the problems. And a lot of times it’s really easy to be like, “Oh yeah, I’m going to go find that.” Versus like, hey, we actually have to fix… we have a system, and then we should have to be running both plays at once.
I think the Food52 team was pretty anemic and pretty injured and unsure and untrusting of where the company was and also unsure about where the company was going. And I think flash forward, in my time, we’ve brought on a lot of people, we’ve brought on a new management team. We have way more transparency around what we’re doing and why. I ask for a ton of feedback. Speaking of, I have a survey out to the company right now on, hey, what are our 10 biggest consumer problems? What are our 10 biggest commercial problems? Everybody here has an equal voice. What do you think is holding us back? And I don’t think that was happening or would’ve ever happened here. So, hopefully, I will make a good impact on the company.
Don: What advice do you have for somebody who wants to be you, who wants to be a CEO, somebody who’s aspiring maybe at the beginning of her career or his career?
Erika: Oh, I’m so psyched. I think that’s great. The more people with aspiration and ambition to do something with themselves and with their careers, I’m all in on that. The advice I would give is you have to put yourself out there. You cannot be afraid to fail. And you will fail. It’s going to happen. So the worrying and the, like, what’s everybody going to say? The sooner you can lose that, the better off you are. To put yourself in a position to be pushed. I think a lot of times right now, people would rather be comfortable than pushed. And I think that’s really dangerous because comfortable means you’re not growing.
I think the one thing I’ve done well in my career is to be comfortable always growing. And so the more comfortable you can be, you don’t know it all, you haven’t figured it all out. There’s stuff you haven’t encountered before. There’s problems constantly. Being able to be happy and navigating that, I think, is… It’s not something you can be taught. It’s not something you can buy or you just assume. It’s something you have to learn and do.
Don: We’ve been talking now for 35 minutes and one thing that I noticed is that you don’t know it all and that you’re constantly learning. That comes through. And don’t you think that that’s a superpower?
Erika: Definitely. I think wanting to learn. It’s funny, my family was playing a game last night at dinner, and it was like, “What are your strengths and what are your weaknesses?” And we called my mother, we FaceTimed my mom. And my mom’s number one strength, she’s like, “I’m a lifelong learner.” That was the greatest gift that my parents gave me, which is just to learn.
Don: What do you want readers of Nobody Cares About Your Career to learn and take away?
Erika: Oh, so much. Just that you could have a vision for yourself and for your career, and that vision can change a whole bunch, but you are capable of that. Two is that it’s going to be all right and you’re going to be as great as you want to be. Three is that there’s nobody coming to help you, but you are enough to help yourself. And the fourth is that feedback is truly a gift. And that the more you can put yourself in environments with people who want to give you feedback, the stronger you will become.
Don: I wasn’t always this way, but I’m an optimist. So my question for you is what fills you with a sense of optimism?
Erika: There are so many people really striving to figure big problems out — climate change, politics. I’m on the board of Malaria No more, like World Health. There’s scientists and engineers and human rights people, and just people banding together to solve really needy problems. It makes me optimistic. The second thing that makes me optimistic is just basic human kindness, which is, no matter what happens in the world, the smallest interactions you have with people can bring you so much joy. And that there’s just infinite truth in that.
Don: What are the things that the people of 2074 are going to look back at and just shake their heads out in disbelief? It can be climate change, it can be single-use products. What’s something that comes to mind to you?
Erika: Oh, how we let our children use screens. It’s smoking. That’s the analogy. I think that will be, the way we recklessly let young people use screens.
Don: That’s a great answer. Erika, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you for your time…
Erika: Thank you for having me.
Don: And thank you for being a genius. Thank you for listening to 12 Geniuses, and thanks to TSC for sponsoring this week’s show. We will be back next week with another episode exploring the trends shaping the way we live and work. Thanks for listening, and thank you for being a genius.